DUST Search - Just how much of a Sandbox do we want?

Crimson MoonV wrote:

John Surratt wrote:

Crimson MoonV wrote:

You are such a smug troll get over yourself.

The everything in this thread are so that dust will not fail on console after release because it is to imbalanced. It will drive console players away if ccp listens to all the eve players and caters to them as much as they want. Your to thick to get that through your head. You just think Im trying to ruin eve. You are insane

Quote:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."

It's not my intent to be inflammatory. I didn't start off topic, and my intent is not to provoke an emotional response. It's was to further a meaningful discussion to resupplying during combat ops in DUST. You dragged the conversation off topic.

You have repeatedly reacted to every piece of information I have tried to supply that showed you were either in ignorance or incorrect about what you were saying as though it were a personal attack. Instead of making valid arguments or backing up your assertions with anything more than opinion, you have made responses which are inflammatory in nature.

You personally do not have the power to destroy a MMO that has been running for ten years, but what you do have is ignorance about that MMO, and the fact that you will be playing an active part in it in DUST, as repeatedly stated by the Devs and even Hilmar himself. I am very sure that your intent is not to "destroy EVE." However you adamantly refuse to acknowledge that DUST is anything more than "CoD with lazors", which is demonstrably not the intent of CCP.

A shared gamespace cannot be treated as separate games, especially when the "senior game" is the one that has supported the development of the "junior" one.

Also, I doubt you speak for every console player.

I'm not going to sit here and explain to the reason why spawning in more clone reserves constantly will be a huge fail in a console fps. You obviously know nothing about how mmofps work and you are a waste of my time. Dust will fail if ccp listens to idiots like this.


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John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 06:23:00 - [1] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: High end corp battles will be about skill not money. ccp already stated that this game will not be pay to win. Just because you can deliver more clones does not mean that will help you win a competitive objective based game mode. Who ever holds the objectives will win and if you have to call in more clones then you more then likely already lost. Perhaps you missed this on the DUST514 website. What's that above the DUST logo on the left hand side? Sorry, but DUST is just a different client and gamespace to the EVE universe, like it or not. It's an expansion to the New Eden experience. DUST corps are EVE corps, mail and chat is (going to be) shared, economies will be merged. . . hmm, yeah, different game altogether. FFS, get over it already. Also: ISK is not money. It's 1's and 0's in a database. ISK doesn't emerge from some mystical portal in EVE, someone has to earn or amass it. Yes, you should be able to use ISK that you have earned, amassed, or been provided to help win a fight, if only to havea bigger warchest that has more toys to play with after they get broken. Real world works that way so why not New Eden?
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 06:52:00 - [2] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Dust 514 is part of the eve universe. Its not the same game. Its not even on the same platform. Play semantics all you want its a different game with a different name that will be interconnected with another game on PC. You sir are wrong dust 514=/=eve online and it is not pay to win. Get over it. adapt or die. Isn't it cute when they try to be all troll-ey and throw the "adapt or die" line around? Answer me this: What does it say above that DUST logo in the upper left hand corner of the link I put in the earlier post? You're going to be playing a game that is coded on stackless python, running on a big server cluster in London. The "game" is (going to be) the same software that is running on that server, which incidentally is the same software that the EVE players are noodling with right now. Your PS3 client is exactly that. A client. A different client that interfaces with TQ. It's not semantics. Incidentally, they are doing hardware upgrades to TQ right now. Coincidence? EVE isn't pay to win. My alliance may have chipped in a giant mound of PLEX to bid on a slot in the alliance tournament, but we didn't pay cash for them. . . soemone else did, but not us. ISK is gathered through playing, it's another resource that is gathered in game. If you amassed a mountain of ISK through your elite DUST gameplay and could always afford top tier gear, would that be an unfair advantage? If you could afford top tier gear and me or the other guy couldn't would that be unfair? What if I had deep pockets as an EVE player and wanted to hire the best mercs and equip them with the best gear to defend my planet against a larger but less wealthy foe? Would that be unfair? In all instances, in absolute terms it's unfair, but that is what sandbox is all about. Some call that "deeper" game play. Not everything in life, or New Eden is right or fair. Sometimes you get your s-it pushed in and soemtimes, you push someone else's s-it in. Since you want to troll, take your own advice and HTFU.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:06:00 - [3] - Quote Angavu Vulgaris wrote: You misunderstand. Perhaps it should be phrased differently. Resources affect the outcome of all and any battle, fictional or real. It is not pay to win. It is "Whoever has the most resources, has the most weapons, and has the most power wins". So, it will be both a battle of skill and resource management. Please close this thread lol... Why anyone goes to play a sandbox game and then argues for "fair" set piece battles is beyond me. Maybe I need to post another recipe. . .
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:26:00 - [4] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: That link you posted is to nerdy for words. Wow, just wow. You eve players are a little bit more quirky then I had expected Way to miss my point completely again. I was talking about high end competitive corp battles. They will be balanced because both teams will have full proto gear and weapons. Dust=/=eve Same universe, different names, different games, different platform. The engine is doesn't matter stop nitpicking and changing the subject. Eve is pay to win. Dust is not. Adapt or die. Oh wait you can't adapt? You want to be able to buy the win. What a joke. Go buy the win on eve. dust is not eve. Careful folks. As for the remark about the link to the info about TQ, this Same universe, different clients interfacing with the same server and database, different platform (although that is tenuous because EVE used to support Windows, Mac, and native Linux. I wonder if I could get the EVE cleint to run on a PS3 running Linux. . .). The engine is different but uses CCP's CARBON/CREST framework & backend. I'll post a quote from this Dev blog from a while back. . . Quote: The EVE universe is such a rich and interesting place it's been a shame we haven't been able to immerse ourselves deeper into it. Until today where we are witnessing the first baby steps out of space and into the place where the rest of the inhabitants of the EVE universe live. Steps which will soon be followed all the way to the ground by a link into DUST 514 and inside stations with Incarna. Our final destination being an all encompassing sci-fi simulator where you can experience any sci-fi experience you desire. How did you arrive at the "fact" EVE is pay to win? Seems we had a big old debacle in that game a while back on P2W microtransactions. . . I didn't say anything about paying cash to win. I did say that I'd like to be able to use whatever resources are available to win. If you as a purely DUST player are allowed to use ISK that is provided to you by a purely EVE player to level the playing field or have a possible advantage, wouldn't that be over all good for greater gameplay? Wouldn't that create more emergent gameplay? Come to think of it, I wonder what the "clones" thing in the DUST menu is all about. . hmmm, Nah, probably just an oversight. Maybe it will bring up a picture of Temuera Morrison
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:40:00 - [5] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: I'mma buy a plex. I'mma sell the plex. I'mma outfit my whole corp with quality dropsuits and vehicles. At market prices, you'd be better off to buy Aurum equipment. 500 mil or even a few billlion is not a lot in absolute terms on an alliance level. . . Also, your whole corp would have to be able to use those items, have sufficient RL skill for them to make a difference, and have the skill to be able to fight an actual objective based battle. . . . . .and what for the love of god prevents a DUST merc corp to ask for support from their EVE contractors? What prevents you from saying "Yeah, I'll take that contract, but I'm gonna need a billion ISK, with an advance for weapons and equipment. . . Also, the market is not going to be opened for quite some time between the two games so PLEX is a non issue for the foreseeable future. I don't foresee a redeem PLEX button being put into the DUST client for a long long time. . . and DUST mercs are not going to be able to trade on the EVE market until such time as the resident economist can figure out how not to have the market crashed. . . where would you sell the PLEX for ISK if not on the EVE market? ISK doesn't come out of a black hole or magic hat. It has to be ratted for.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:48:00 - [6] - Quote Renzo Kuken wrote: but this IS eve online did you miss the mem where EVE and dust are in the same universe? so there for they share the same rules This: Edit: now fixed for the obtuse and trolls.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 08:04:00 - [7] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Quote: How did you arrive at the "fact" EVE is pay to win? Seems we had a big old debacle in that game a while back on P2W microtransactions. . . I didn't say anything about paying cash to win. I did say that I'd like to be able to use whatever resources are available to win. If you as a purely DUST player are allowed to use ISK that is provided to you by a purely EVE player to level the playing field or have a possible advantage, wouldn't that be over all good for greater gameplay? Wouldn't that create You are not even the person I was originally talking to. I didn't know I was debating with 4 or 5 people until I started to look at the names. I have no problem against trading with eve players and microtransactions. I was talking about the idea that someone posted on page one about simply buying more clones in the middle of a battle with isk to win the match. No pay to win with isk in the middle of a corp battle. This has somewhat been a misunderstanding. You guys really like to nitpick, change the subject, and completely miss the point. Yeah. There are these name things under the look alike pictures. Strangely people will argue/barge in on arguments on interweb forums. You can tell my posts from alot of the others by the usually correct grammar and spelling. That, and the overwhelming amount of smartass in them. I don't know. . . the idea of resupply is kinda interesting. The guy who brought it up also mentioned, I think, the fact that additional clones would have to be brought in EVE side via ship. That would be rather interesting and drive all sorts of emergent gameplay on both sides of a battle, both ground and space. It shouldn't be "push button receive clone/gear bacon." There needs to be a human element involved. You can only bring in what you have brought to the fight as things currently sit. . . I wonder if in 0.0 matches you will have to buy clones as well as drop suits and gear. . makes sense to me. . . Imagine turning a fight with a timely resupply or a fight turning due to the enemy resupply getting ganked/hot dropped while on the way. Imagine resupply via Black Ops bridging or Titan bridge. . . Crimson MoonV wrote: My unsupported opinion? wow and i'm the troll. You cannot buy the win with isk in high end corp battles because everyone has good gear. Thats all I was trying to say. If dust and eve were the same game dust simply would have been another patch for eve but its not. Its a different game with a different name that will be interconnected by one universe. That is not that hard to understand. Just because it says dust and eve on the same page does not mean they are the same game. Its not like I can play eve from dust on my console and I can't play dust from my PC. They are two separate games. Fail troll is fail. Once again: "The EVE universe is such a rich and interesting place it's been a shame we haven't been able to immerse ourselves deeper into it. Until today where we are witnessing the first baby steps out of space and into the place where the rest of the inhabitants of the EVE universe live. Steps which will soon be followed all the way to the ground by a link into DUST 514 and inside stations with Incarna. Our final destination being an all encompassing sci-fi simulator where you can experience any sci-fi experience you desire. " Are you trolling, being obtuse, or just that dense? It's two different platforms and genres coming together as all one overall game with a different perspective, type of play environment, and interface between the two. If you can effect the game of an EVE PC player and shoot his ship from the ground, how can you say they are not in the same game? Shared gamespace. CCP has been pretty adamant about this, while giving out nice reassuring words like "AAA shooter" so as not to scare off the CoD kiddies.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 08:25:00 - [8] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Jarre Jardox wrote: Yes I'd say quite unsupported. I haven't seen any other poster yet back u up, wen I do I will retract my statement about ur unsupported opinion. Also I'd like to defend the op since ur making a big deal about subject changing. Yes I absolutely believe tht in hi end corporation matches u should absolutely be able to buy more clones provided there is an Eve ship in orbit supplying the clones. I think others would agree with me. This is the same thing as having a carrier (thts one of the largest logistics ships in Eve just so u know crimson) drop off ships for the players who just lost their ship in large scale battle. I have 61 likes. Some people support my opinions. corp battles should be about who is better not who has more isk. I shouldn't even have to explain why. You obviously know nothing about competitive fps. The 61 likes is global, not per thread. "Better" is a slippery term. Better in an MMO is not just fast thumbs. Planning and metal acuity should also count. If you didn't plan and the other guy did, hate it for ya bro. You should be able to get resupply, but it should require a human element topside, like in the Future Vision trailer. Maybe if you GG, you can amass a lot of ISK too and have buddies to call on. Also, anything that gets called down (turrets, installations, orbital strikes too I believe) will have to be done by via war points. . . which you get by doing things in battle, which would seems to meet you're requirement for "leet thumb skillz" Arcushek Dion wrote: You're referring to competative fps where the only thing you're competing for is who is the biggest score ***. In Dust you will be competing for stuff that will make you and your allies large amounts of isk. In that respect you're l33t kdr means sweet ** all if you can't put wins on the board. The win is ALL that matters to your employers. I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand. Because when someone says "EVE" the thumbers get all defensive and butt-hurt because they don't "get" that game. They accuse as subscription based game of being P2W, say it's point and click requireing no "skill", and act like anything a PC gamer say is over intellectual drivel (usually to the sound of things like "lol u r so ghay. GG nubz." They run away from any sentence bearing the word EVE and bury thier head under their KD/R and hope the bad man stops talking about things that make their head hurt and call into doubt their leetness. Yeah, results are what matters. I have some hope for the hardcore BF3 types over the CoD kiddies. Not starting a flame war again over the game that starts with M and ends with AG.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 08:43:00 - [9] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: The fans will ruin this game if they get the chance. Mark my words. CCP if you listen to some of these eve players ideas and give them the imbalances they want there will be 3000 people playing your game 6 months from now. This is a console game not eve online. Eve is all about imbalance. Dust cannot be if it wants be a success. Yeah, CCP is so fail at designing immersive multiplayer games. . .no one will be around in six months. . oh wait. And if EVE, a game you admit is about imbalance has a direct effect on DUST, then DUST is imbalanced by it's interaction and shared gamespace. You then have to assume you want to "balance" EVE so that your DUST experience can be equally fair. You ain't nerfing my side of the sandbox controller boy.. . .Despite CCP saying that DUST is not going to be about leader boards, KD/R etc, but "meaningful" battles, you still ain't picking up what they are putting down. . . No one said anything about zerg, which I find your use of the term f-king hilarious, since it comes from a RTS game. . . Arcushek Dion wrote: /facepalm war is not an e-sport. One more time, with feeling, for Crimson.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 08:57:00 - [10] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: I never said nerf your side of the sandbox. If you are looking for a troll, look no further. Find a mirror. Just because eve is successful on PC does not mean that dust will be on console. Console is a whole different ballpark. . . and this is supposed to be a whole different game from a vanilla FPS. My god, it's got MMO, FPS, & RTS elements all rolled into one. Think about the bigger picture. If you want to play a gun game and gun game alone, highsec matches will have that. When you talk about 0.0 matches, you are talking about things like asymmetrical warfare, logistics & strategy. Stop throwing up the "not an FPS" shield and think bigger than "gun game" if you want to talk about nullsec. Also, gaming is gaming. What hardware it runs on is only important to the guy writing the code.

John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 09:04:00 - [11] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: You figured me out I am here to nerf imbalance and destroy eve single handedly No, you are wrong, unable to make an argument that you can back up, and too damn proud to admit it or come to an agreement or synthesis. syn-+the-+sis [sin-thuh-sis] noun 4.Philosophy . the third stage of argument in Hegelian dialectic, which reconciles the mutually contradictory first two propositions, thesis and antithesis. Crimson MoonV wrote: Way to miss my point completely again. I was talking about high end competitive corp battles. They will be balanced because both teams will have full proto gear and weapons. "High end competitive corp battles" will be 0.0. Period dot. That is where ten eyars of drama has all come from, barring some of the great scams and ponzi schemes that were run. Your concept of what EVE nullsec is like and about is naive to say the least. Your precious corp battles will be fought in null eventually and it will very convoluted and unfair. It's all about who ever can be more unfair. There have been alliances who have DDOSed the opposing sides Teamspeak for god's sake. . .
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 09:13:00 - [12] - Quote Jarre Jardox wrote: Crimson u have marched in to a world I do think u have begun to understand. if u allow for dust Mercs to affect the sovereignty of eve but do not allow eve players to affect the outcome of a battle tht would change sovereignty then yes u are destroying eve. Let me explain sovereignty for u so u can better understand. Sovereignty is owning a part of space corps and alliances seek to gain sovereignty to gain valuable resources so they can make bigger harder ships and then in turn make isk via ratting or seek out more sovereignty. Therefore if u allow dust mercs to change this but don't let eve players change the course of the battle then u are destroying my game. Oh, no, can't have unfairness in corp battles. Level playing field for all so we can see who has the fastest thumbs and most leet KDR as opposed to best brain cells. These guys get so damn mad when you tell them they don't know WTF they are talking about but when you try to explain it they get all butthurt. . . Would it kill you Crimson to actually read a little about the game universe you are going to be playing in? I'm not asking you to plan an entire nullsec war or invade Delve or anything. . . just read up on how things work? Maybe watch a few videos. 'Cause DUST will have to work in the existing framework or the existing framework will have to be changed in such a way it doesn't **** off about 400k worth of subscriptions at $15 a month or $120 a year.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 09:29:00 - [13] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: You are such a smug troll get over yourself. The everything in this thread are so that dust will not fail on console after release because it is to imbalanced. It will drive console players away if ccp listens to all the eve players and caters to them as much as they want. Your to thick to get that through your head. You just think Im trying to ruin eve. You are insane Quote: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted." It's not my intent to be inflammatory. I didn't start off topic, and my intent is not to provoke an emotional response. It's was to further a meaningful discussion to resupplying during combat ops in DUST. You dragged the conversation off topic. You have repeatedly reacted to every piece of information I have tried to supply that showed you were either in ignorance or incorrect about what you were saying as though it were a personal attack. Instead of making valid arguments or backing up your assertions with anything more than opinion, you have made responses which are inflammatory in nature. You personally do not have the power to destroy a MMO that has been running for ten years, but what you do have is ignorance about that MMO, and the fact that you will be playing an active part in it in DUST, as repeatedly stated by the Devs and even Hilmar himself. I am very sure that your intent is not to "destroy EVE." However you adamantly refuse to acknowledge that DUST is anything more than "CoD with lazors", which is demonstrably not the intent of CCP. A shared gamespace cannot be treated as separate games, especially when the "senior game" is the one that has supported the development of the "junior" one. Also, I doubt you speak for every console player.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 09:34:00 - [14] - Quote Jarre Jardox wrote: Look ur little balanced game tht u want ccp will include it in hi-sec warfare and most likely even in corporate low sec warfare but if u want to play with the big boys of eve u better be prepared for us to ruin ur day either with a whole lot of metal and plasma rain, or some other form of reinforcement such as clones. Period. Crimson, you really just don't get it. This argument isn't about one fight, it's about war fighting. I know for a fact that no game you have ever played has ever had the sorts of wars that exist in New Eden. You know what Jarre, I give up. It's late and it's time for a shower and bed. We tried. Good night.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 09:57:00 - [15] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: John Surratt wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: You are such a smug troll get over yourself. The everything in this thread are so that dust will not fail on console after release because it is to imbalanced. It will drive console players away if ccp listens to all the eve players and caters to them as much as they want. Your to thick to get that through your head. You just think Im trying to ruin eve. You are insane Quote: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted." It's not my intent to be inflammatory. I didn't start off topic, and my intent is not to provoke an emotional response. It's was to further a meaningful discussion to resupplying during combat ops in DUST. You dragged the conversation off topic. You have repeatedly reacted to every piece of information I have tried to supply that showed you were either in ignorance or incorrect about what you were saying as though it were a personal attack. Instead of making valid arguments or backing up your assertions with anything more than opinion, you have made responses which are inflammatory in nature. You personally do not have the power to destroy a MMO that has been running for ten years, but what you do have is ignorance about that MMO, and the fact that you will be playing an active part in it in DUST, as repeatedly stated by the Devs and even Hilmar himself. I am very sure that your intent is not to "destroy EVE." However you adamantly refuse to acknowledge that DUST is anything more than "CoD with lazors", which is demonstrably not the intent of CCP. A shared gamespace cannot be treated as separate games, especially when the "senior game" is the one that has supported the development of the "junior" one. Also, I doubt you speak for every console player. I'm not going to sit here and explain to the reason why spawning in more clone reserves constantly will be a huge fail in a console fps. You obviously know nothing about how mmofps work and you are a waste of my time. Dust will fail if ccp listens to idiots like this. God, I am such a masochist. Obviously you just didn't read where I said that if there was any resupply of vehicles, clones etc, it would need to be brought in via another human being that human being being topside in EVE and bringing them in from wherever. Obviously you have no clue that the real PVP in EVE is in 0.0 and that is where the real "corp vs corp" battles will happen. Obviously you know very little about the gaming universe and it's mechanics which already exists, which you will be a part of as a DUST merc, which was there for ten years before you came to this beta, or you would realize 0.0 logistics can still be a pain in the ass especially in a war zone, thus making resupply difficult and giving rise to opportunities for combat in EVE, which will in turn effect DUST. Obviously I don't know anything about PVP MMOs what ever their perspective, because I never played whatever you played that made you an all knowing critic speaking for all console players in the international market. Obviously you should quit wasting your time on this MMOFPS beta since it is doomed to fail because of all the MMO players involved who have opinions that they have backed up with fact and not "cause I said so." Obviously I wasted my time trying to point out things that didn't jive with your unsupported opinions. Obviously now I am trolling you for real. Obviously, I now don't give a kitten.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.19 08:15:00 - [16] - Quote Abron Garr wrote: If a Dust commander loses all his clones and gets a popup message that allows him to buy 60 more clones then I'm going to be pissed. That's not sandbox, that's hand holding and it doesn't belong in Eve. However, if that commander decided beforehand to cram his War Barge with extra clone units (and consequently fewer Marauders due to space constraints) to be dropped during a prolonged siege, then I can live with that. If he wants to bring even more...fine..so long as I have a chance to turn his Provi into a loot pinata before those clone units arrive. That's just my opinion. This as well. That's what I've been saying all along. Also, with ships hanging around planets to bombard and or possibly resupply, it creates more targets for me to shoot at/hot drop topside. Tony Calif wrote: @Abron Great post. Faction war will be awesome. Think of all those low sec pirates, they might have juicey war barge targets and such to plunder. Loaded with booty :) Edit: Highsec will be simple, Low sec you will probably need 1 EvE player on board, Null sec give up. Waste of time fighting for stuff some eve guys will make worthless using market manipulation. Because they can. And provided they have the right skills, they can ruin your economy while they strike you. Yeah, fun being a grunt out there. On a side note, you don't hold sov for planet goo, you hold it for all the space based resources and to plant a flag. Also the market is manipulable but is big enough that you can't manipulate all of it at once barring things like the Gallente Ice Interdiction or OTEC. Null itself is in need of some luv soon and the sov mechanics will likely get an overhaul to SOV 3.0 whenever DUST gets integrated into it. I'd expect changes to try and Balkanize 0.0 some. We are currently slowly & inexorably headed to what they have on the Chinese server, two big blocs. My hope is that DUST can inject some life back into Sov. DekCo and GoonPets vs -A- vs DOT brothers vs Russian Renter Hell is kinda getting ********.